DD:  Husband-wife relationship is a very pure relationship because it is the basis of creation.  It is a blessing of the Guru and blessing of God because he made it like this.  And (the marriage) is only true if there is Naam within the relationship.  Without Naam all relationships are false. If there is Naam in the hirda then the relationship is true and if there is no naam in the hirda then the relationship is false.  That’s why in a false relationship there is always fights, arguments and troubles.  [To Mata Ji] Wasn’t there fights all your life with your husband?Mata Ji: Yes all our life there were fights.  Yes until his last breath.

DD:  Look at you family and relatives as well. Was there war?

Mata Ji: yes.

DD: have a look at your parents life all of you (refers to sangat), have a look in all other families, look at their lives (and see if there are fights?)

Mata Ji: Patshah jee (refers to DD) we have one ardas,  you have said that the ones that bless people without hukam from God  are criminals in Dargah.  Yet those people (refering to her her previous Sants) have done so much spiritual labouring and they have so much sangat  and whatever people come and ask for, whatever they ask for they bless them with that and their wants are fulfilled.

DD:  No they don’t fulfill them.

Mata Ji: they don’t?

DD:  No, whatever is written in your destiny you will get, there is only one thing that can overrule your destiny and that is Naam.  Until Naam does not go into your hirda your ties with your karam or destiny will not be broken.  It is all a lie (that these dargahi criminals can change your destiny).

Mata Ji: But people go to these worldy sants and they do ardas and ask for their (worldly) wants and those sants say, “yes, that it will happen,” or “your want will be fulfilled.”

DD: NO.. a (puran) sant when he gives he will give to you without you even having to ask for it.  He gives without the need for someone to ask.  The one that goes to sants with wants does not get fullfilled because of them.  That is all a lie it is all false.  We have told you that already. If out of 100 who go there, just 1 or 2 peoples wants get fulfilled, that does not mean that everyone’s wants get fulfilled.   Tell me if there is 2000 or 10,000 people sitting in their sangat, do all of those people’s wants get fulfilled?  It does not happen like that. Nobody can get released from their karam or past deeds until naam does not go into their hirda.  Whatever you receive will be due to whatever you have sown in your past.  If a sant has given it to you by themselves, without you having to ask, then you get whatever he gives you.

Mata Ji: do there karam start playing out and that’s why they go to these people and give and take something?

DD: yes ,it is a game of your deeds.  That is also a game of their past deeds (referring to people who go to sants with worldly wants) everyone goes (to whichever sangat) according to their past deeds.  Everyone sitting here has also come due to their past deeds, not for any other reason. Everyone who is sitting here is due to their past deeds.

Mata Ji: but Patshah jee, dont they (wordly sants) have supernatural powers (ridhia sidhia) they are using to fulfil the wants?

DD: yes, however these ridhia-sidhia are always waiting to serve a puran sant as well.  But, for a puran sant (they are nothing and serve him, but for a wordly sant, he misuses them to impress people and amass a sangat and wealth).  A puran sant delivers complete Truth Mata ji. The ones that give incomplete Truth is not a puran sant.  He is also incomplete (refers to the sants that don’t give full divine wisdom to the sangat). The one who is a complete sant does not make the sangat recite panch shabads (five names of god as Radhasoamis do).  He tells the sangat to recite the invaluable diamond (Satnaam).  He doesn’t need to ask the sangat to recite other paaths (prayers).  Did we make you recite any other paath (Refers to Swaraj ji in the sangat)? Did we make you recite any other paath (refers to someone else in the sangat).  Swaraj ji has met us for the first time today since speaking with us frequently over email.  Just over email over time she started saying I don’t know what was happening in my third eye it was throbbing, she could see sparks/currents when she closed her eyes

Swaraj ji: laughs in agreement.

DD:  It (spiritua lexperiences) don’t happen like this (if you don’t have naam).

Mata Ji: Patshah jee it is all your blessings.

DD:  Ask (Sant) Om ji, ask him as well.  We met him for the first time after 5 years (after communicating via email and spiritually)?   It doesn’t happen like this (without naam).  People of the world seeing others start following saying, “Oh he is such a great sant because he has such a large following,”  and start following and going to these wordly sants as well.  The only thing that can override the law of karma is naam that is what Gurbani says. People who go and sit in the sangat of sants with worldly wants are fools. If you go and meet a sant what is there to ask for?  If you are going to ask for something ask for bandagi (slavery of God the Master) from a sant.  Ridhia-sidhia,  you get them due to bandagi,  you get them.

Mata Ji: yes.

DD: if a person does bandagi they get them easily. Ridhia-sidhia come and the ones who use them get caught in the web of ridhia-sidhia and get stuck in that, do you understand?

Mata Ji: yes.

DD:  and the ones (who don’t get distracted by them and don’t use them)  He takes them further (meaning God takes them to a higher spiritual level himself).  The ones that don’t want to go further sit there using these ridhia-sidhia (fulfilling wants etc).

Mata Ji: so due to these (powers) people start following these wordly sants.

DD: this what we are explaining to you, is that these worldly sants acquire 1 or 2 ridhia-sidhia and use that to entice people.  But their (wordly sants) future is very bad some of them are punished to be reborn as preths (demons).

Mata Ji:  yes ji.

DD:  they have to endure a rebirth of being a preth for many, many years (even thousands of years).

Mata Ji: that’s a very severe punishment.

DD:  that’s because there is power in ridhia sidhia in order to control the universe.  That’s why God has made them. God made them to control the universe and to control the creation with these powers. And if you start misusing these powers then you are trying to become a competitor of God.

Mata Ji: Yes.

DD:  Can there be a competitor of God?  Is there anyone like God? Can that be?

Mata Ji: so that why they (wordly sants using ridhia sidhia) have to endure such a punishment.

DD: Ridhia Sidhia is also maya (part of the Creation) and Maya serves a puran sant, doesn’t maya serve?  [Puran sant has defeated maya, has no desire for money or supernatural powers or ammassing sangat etc.  However, as per destiny when sangat comes and sant speaks, then maya and ridhia sidhia go out to make the sants words into a reality.  “Nanak Das mukh te jo bolay, eeha ooha sach hovay.  Nanak says whatever the Servant of God says with their mouth, is true now and forever.”]

Mata Ji: Yes, Maharaj jee we have heard up to now, many times that in the Sat Sangat they say all the sangat sitting here are all sitting in sachkhand.

DD:  the one that is paying his (household) bill is he sitting in Sachkhand?  If he is sitting in sangat and is thinking about his chores at home in his mind is he sitting in sachkhand?

Mata Ji: all the kood (filth) is sitting inside us, what can we understand

DD: that is why we are explaining to you. Yes, going to the sangat of a puran sant is extremely  beneficial we are not saying its not, it is beneficial. But you could gain a lot more from going to the sangat of a puran sant.   If they go with worldy wants then they sit there and wait and wait for their worldly wants to be fulfilled they are not  earning the words i.e. the gyan of the sant.  We have not seen a sant yet (other than Baba ji) that has given his sangat complete divine wisdom.  We have not seen a sant that has delivered complete divine wisdom so far. We have seen on TV and listened to many sants, and seen that they are scared that if they speak and deliver the complete divine wisdom to the sangat the sangat will start beating us and all the sangat will runaway. If there is 100,000 people sitting there in a sangat and you say, “all those with worldly wants go from here you are not going to get anything from here,”  will they come, will they come?

Mata Ji: No.

DD:  so haven’t they made it into a business?  Haven’t they?

Mata Ji:  This is what I was worried about regarding my past Sants.

DD: if they gave you Puran Sat, full divine wisdom, then they would have sat you in Dargah.

Mata Ji: Maharaj jee sitting here so peacefully, the peace and happiness I am getting from your lotus feet, I have never received in my life.

DD: do you understand that only when it was written in your destiny, only then it happened.  Only when it is written in your destiny were you going to meet us, why didn’t you meet us yesterday?