“We remember the first time we met Baba ji in 2003, we were still coming out of orthodox Sikhism, strict about external symbols and being vegetarian etc, and Dassan Dass ji asked us to request Baba ji “make us like you.” First, we hesitated for a moment, because we still only saw the outside i.e. Baba ji has cut hair and eats meat and doesn’t wear Sikh symbols etc. We had no idea really what Baba ji was on the inside, but we trusted Dassan Dass ji and just humbly requested, “please make us like you Baba ji.”
Then after having Pizza with chicken topping, Baba Ji said, “This (meat) is another thing that people are so confused about!” Brother Ji apologised for not having any plates, so Baba Ji picked up his shoe with the dirty sole side up and said this will do! (Showing that it is only the mind that things are digusting when actually gurbani teaches us to treat dirt and gold the same – to see God in everything).”
For all those who are where we were 10 years ago, please read the following divine wisdom about the meat topic that confuses so many people. Please read with an open mind, use it to help free your mind and liberate God inside your heart.
Preeto, Jan 2013
SATNAAM BABA JI HAS TAUGHT THE FOLLOWING:
(Written by a humble servant in Baba Ji’s Sangat as taught by Baba Ji, 2002)
Baba ji urges everyone not to get trapped in any wasteful desires. Eating meat, eggs or fish has nothing to do with the spirituality as long as you do not desire for it. Or if you do not kill a bird or animal with the desire to eat its meat. If you happen to be at a place, where meat or eggs is the only thing available to eat – there is absolutely nothing wrong with eating any of these. It is perfectly fine to eat what is available. The process of seeing holy food (vegetarian) and unholy food (meat) is duality – Dubidha – not seeing God in all. A Lord’s true devotee eventually becomes like Him, and carries a singular vision (ek drishat). You go to the grocery shop, and if He happens to take you near the meat area, and persuades you to buy it – a true devotee wouldn’t discriminate. The meat is another item like lentils or vegetables in the store.
The fools argue about flesh and meat,
but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables?
What leads to sin?
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros,
and make a feast of the burnt offering.
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it,
enjoys flesh at night.
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people,
But they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people?
They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.
On the other hand, if you desire for it and say that today I am going to cook and eat meat only, when vegetables or other kind of foods are already available. This is an obvious desire, and can take you backwards from the path of spirituality. Eating horse meat during the war times (at Anandpur Sahib) was completely under His Hukam as the Tenth Guru and Sikhs did.
Whatever He gives us, we eat; says Nanak, He is the True Lord.
An animal or a bird or a human being is destined with a certain life time, and eventually will perish away. The bacteria in our body due to an illness itself is a form of birth. We get cured as the bacteria completes the life cycle (similar to the rest of the 8.4 million life forms). It is a part of “Aape Ras – Rasia”.meaning God Himself is the taste and the taster.
Baba Ji himself eats meat, eggs under God’ s grace (if offered by any one). He puts the souls of those animals into God’s court as he prays and thanks the Lord before eating. The animals or birds happen to serve the rest by offering their dead meat to feed them, and in a way are better than human beings. So does the `vista ka jant’ (stool-worm), is born, lives, and dies under His will (separate from the body of the host). The vista ka jant (stool-worm) is a separate jyote (spirit), just like the bacteria in our body (eyes, ear, nose, throat and the sperm…).
(Written by a humble servant in Baba Ji’s Sangat as taught by Baba Ji,2002)
It is an illusion (bharam) in itself to discriminate between good and bad. Eg It is an illusion to think that meat is bad but lentils are good. Or that men are better than woman. Or that religious looking Sikhs are better than cut-haired Sikhs. Discrimination gives birth to desire and duality. For example with meat, the animal dies according to its pre-destined life cycle. The Guru’s teach that life and death is all under the Command of God. As long as you are not killing the animal with cravings for the taste or for the thrill of the kill you are not doing a bad deed. God has given each being the right to kill for food. But not the right to kill for desires – meaning you are doing a bad deed if you kill for pleasure or for sport or for cravings for the taste. One can opt not to eat meat if it disturbs the mental state. Again, it is in the mind and not in seeing one food as good and another as impure.
We have to conquer the dualities, the doubts and illusions. We have to essentially merge the three minds (trikuti : creating, destroying , balancing) to a single God-like mind (Embodiment of Light). The Trikuti (third eye) opens after dwelling with one mind in meditation. It is the spiritual state of a devotee in the highest realm “SACH KHAND” – God’s Realm Of Truth. It signifies a singular vision of a bhagat, as he or she becomes the embodiment of the Lord. This is where bhagat chants–
“Tohi Mohi anter kaisa”
O’Lord, there is no distance between two of us,
you – the Highest of the Highest
and your very humble servant
are absorbed in each other.
This state is difficult to understand for a common being. The Lord is going to make you do the things you probably wouldn’t want to do. The true bhagats recognize His will, and sacrifice everything without any self. It is impossible to completely understand the infinite nature of the Lord.
Bhagat Sadna Ji got the wisdom through a goat, as he (a butcher by profession) was ready to cut its head. The Lord gave him the message that he is killing the goat in this birth, and the goat is going to repeat the same with him in the next birth.
It is also true that the meal offerings from ill-earnings do corrupt your mind. This is true for common beings, but the Saints have the ability to sanitize the food, as they pray before eating it. Baba Nanak did not eat the rich food from Malak Bhago probably to convey the message to his Sikhs.
There is similar history related to Bhagat Ravidaas Ji from his previous birth. Ravidass ji was cursed by his Guru Bhagat Rama Nand ji to be a low caste in his next birth because he chose to bring the whole food from a nearby rich man’s house instead of collecting from common people’s houses (Bhagat Ravidaas ji used to go door to door and collect food for his Guru and other followers. He was instructed by his Guru to bring the food from common people’s houses. He was specifically told not to go to one particular person’s house. This person was an affluent person, but he was making his living out of ill deeds).
One should not interpret Bhagat Rama Nand ji’s intentions as discriminatory. He was totally against the caste-system, and he did this perhaps to communicate the message to his followers and others. Without going into further details, we would like to mention that Bhagat Rama Nand ji was Guru to many so-called low caste bhagats – Ravidaas Ji, Namdev Ji, Sain Ji, and many more. The bani quoted through Bhagat Rama Nand ji is a part of SGGS Ji.
Baba ji eats meat if offered. That is probably unique to the traditions. Every bhagat is unique and has a unique charisma. The Lord has not created things or people alike. Looking at the history, Baba Farid ji was destined to live in a saint’s rough rags, and he used to chew on chippattis made out of wood to kill his desires and needs. Yet the sixth Guru Hargobind Sahib and Dasam Patshah lived in royal dress-up.
jio thoo raakhehi thiv hee rehanaa thumharaa painaih khaae ||1||
As You keep me, so do I survive; I eat and I wear whatever You give me. ||1|| – SGGS 1223
BABA JI HAS SAID THE FOLLOWING
Baba Ji, 2003
(Baba j is talking about a religious vegetarian’s logic)
Some people may say “I’m not drinking where cow’s meat has been eaten”. (Eg Many “religious” people are very strict about not eating out and do not even eat at relative’s houses if they eat meat.) Then why are you wearing shoes? (as shoes are usually made of leather). You’re a hypocrite when you say that. Did you kill the cow? NO. If a man can kill a cow and become a saint (Sadhana Ji’s verses are in the scriptures, yet he was a butcher by trade), then why cant you? Have you ever thought of that?
The soul leaves when the cow dies. And what is left is food. And what do the scriptures say? When the cow dies, the body will come in use. But when a man dies, the cow will not even eat the man. That’s how low the man is. A man is so low that dogs will not eat his body. But if a saint dies, all the birds will come and eat him, they get sanctified.
The saint wishes “I’ve done my deeds in the lifecycle (eaten other lifeforms plant, animals etc), so when I die, I want this body to be used (by other creatures in the lifecycle)” That’s why Baba Ishar Singh ji wanted his body to be sent into the water for the fish to eat. (Even though Hindus and Sikhs get cremated, many saints prefer their body to be sent on a boat-coffin out into the river). So the body can be used.
The scriptures challenge the people who are in attachment to Maya and say, “Oh, you cant feed my grandad to dogs!, No No, he’s our grandad.” But will the dogs eat the body? While the grandad was alive, he used to steal, rob, lie. Even the dog is better than this dog with 2 legs!
Baba Ji, 2003
The Scripture is a puzzle, but it also gives you the answers. Eg some religious traditions say, “Don’t eat meat.” But if your destiny says, “You are going to kill 4 dogs.” Then it causes duality in your mind. If you read God’s words but don’t work out what it means then it’s a waste. Instead of trying to understand scriptures, people just follow traditions. – eg the Guru’s did this so we’ll do it as well. (It becomes superstitions for future generations – no one knows why they are doing certain religious rituals).
The one who destroys superstitions is known as the Satguru.
Gurprasad bharam ka naas.
By the Gru’s grace illusions are destroyed.
Guru Arjun Dev Ji).
Baba Sukha, 2002
Once Baba ji found out how many incomplete saints there were just in the Sikh religion. Over 98% of them infact. Baba ji is so pure that he broke so many superstitions and belief in the Sikh religion like eating meat and cutting hair. Baba ji says you could eat meat but don’t crave it and don’t die for it.
[Preeto: Here is an example of typical preaching done by Sikh Sants from our diary in 1996:
Were blessed to meet Gurmukh ji and we went to the Baba Maan Singh programme together. Nowhere to sit, had to squeeze in, must have been over 1000 people in Havelock Road Gurdwara. People sitting in the shoe area, in the hallway, in the langar areas too. Baba Maan Singh ji splits the sangat into two clean halves. The meat-eaters and beer drinkers feel like naughty kids being told off by their Dad and sit quitely with heads hung low. The Amrit-dharees in the uniform, already have big heads and lack humility. Baba Maan singh fuels their ego with stories from Sikh history and his black and white, wrong and right view of the world. They leave feeling superior and look down at the non-amritdharees.
Gurmukh ji wasn’t impressed with him saying, “He says Waheguru roughly. A true MahaPurakh (Great soul) says his Husband’s name with love and humility. They have put a thief as the leader and the Sikh masses follow.”
Harsh words indeed, but only a true lover knows who else is true.]
Baba Ji, 2003
Preeto: I noticed that when you and the congregation eat meat then Pritam Anand requests you to liberate the souls of those animals. Also Pritam Anand said that whilst driving if he sees dead animals lying on road he prays to you to liberate them.
Baba Ji: That is living selflessly every moment for all creatures. The more Satnaam meditation you do the more your brightness increases and keeps away negativity. And with that Naam-Light everything gets healed even families gets better. If someone has hate inside them other people get effected by that negative energy without them even speaking. The opposite is true too.
Preeto: Pritam Anand never preaches to anyone at work, but just from his nature and smile he was told by a co-worker, “You are different, you are a spiritual and peaceful person.”
Is it ok to eat meat or eggs ? can it effect meditation?
QN: Sir, I wanted to know that is it ok to eat meat or eggs ? can it effect meditation?
Preeto: its ok, eat healthy balanced diet that suits your body so your body doesnt distract you when you meditate.
QN: But sir ,isnt it a sin to eat a living being like us?
Preeto: Everything has life in it. No matter what you eat something gave up its life so that your life can continue. Rather than getting guilt for the life that has been taken, do your simran , unite with God and all those lifeforms souls will also be blessed. That is how you can repay for all the life you hve taken so you can stay alive.
QN: I dont agree with you. In fact how can I? In almost every religion stress is always given on being vegetarian and you say that we can kill a creature of param pita for just our tongue taste? How can you justify this?
aap karay app karai (Himself the Doer, Himself the one who gets it done).
app chakki app chakkia (Himself the partaker, Himself the server).
app russ app rasia (Himself the joy (taste), Himself the enjoyer(taster)).
app chakawn harr, satnaam ji (Himself the one who feeds all , beloved SatNaam).
Look inside you are being eaten. In your ears by bacteria, in the saliva by bacteria, by the worms inside your shit (bista da jant), by the lice on your head, by the bacteria in your gut.
All is a cosmic soup. All is connected. Every living thing is leaning on the other. Even Guru-chella (Guru and Devotee). SAT SAT (Truth Truth).
1) Objection and 2) rejection and 3) acceptance is the state of trinity mind, but God is beyond this. Your heart is also beyond your mind even being within yourself.
Bless you. Dharam (true religion i.e. path to union inside) is only earned when Bharam (religious illusions/superstitions) are shattered. To reach the truest heart all logic has to be defeated.
There is a story that when Guru Gobind Singh Jee was escaping through the forests as “Uch Da Pir” (The Muslim Saint from Uch) that some Moghul guards stopped his palanquin asking who was inside. When the Singhs (dressed as Muslims) told them it was the great saint “Uch Da Pir” the guards wanted to test the saint. They handed over a dish of halaal (muslim) meat to Guru Sahib. Now Guru ji had given orders to his Sikh army not allowing Sikhs to eat the food of the enemy as it was a sign of forced conversion. So the Muslim guards knew a Sikh wouldn’t eat it and they could catch the Guru out if it was him inside. So Guru Sahib did not waste any time in thoughts of “should I eat it or shouldn’t I”, he had no bharams (doubts / superstitions) . He just recited “gur prasad bharam ka naas” meaning by God’s grace ALL doubts are destroyed. Having blessed the food he ate it and the guards lets him pass.
The Sikhs at the present moment are caught up in many many bharams. And the more “religious” one gets, the more he just seems to be wrapped up in bharams. That is why the SatGuru’s were so important to the world. They very simply showed people what was the simple and right way to God and destroyed thousands of superstions and doubts. We want our spirit to be free ‘Mukt’ liberated, yet when we enter on the path everyone we meet gives us another bharam to weigh us down. Instead of religion freeing us, it ties us down even more. Gives us more things to feel guilty about which leads to becoming either introverted and depressed, fearing to speak out in case we get struck down by lightning. Or we get rebellious from religion and turn our back on the whole religion.
DASSAN DASS HAS SAID THE FOLLOWING:
Dassan Dass, 2002
Half of the Brahamand (world) is eating the other half every day, every moment, meat is just a food like any other food, Jesus Christ served the fish to His followers, does that diminish His Braham Gyan (divine knowledge)? Killing is not a Sat Karam (truthful deed), but denying the food is definitely an untruthful deed.
“Maas Maas kar Murakh Jhagrey (only fools argue about eating meat – Baba Nanak.
The only thing is that meat is a Tamo Bhojan (food of lower consciousness), it brings in us more Tamo Guns (lower consciousness attributes), like animal instinct, lustful behavior inside us, so that is why some Sants and Bhagats don’t eat meat, there is no other disadvantage in eating meat, there should be no desire for meat, but if it comes on dining table then saying no is like denying the hukam (God’s will for us at that moment as per our destiny). We can just say it is the illusion – dubidha, that all religious vegetarians are living in. Any kind of dubidha is a roadblock on the path to the Sachkhand. (Ed Note: Whoever kills the animal will have to pay for that action unless there was no other food available. That karam is between the animal and the butcher. Not between the animal and the eater. Killing is a bad action, eating meat is not. Denying meat and calling it unholy and seeing meat eaters as less worthy than you is incorrect vision. You should have One Vision i.e. see God in meat, see God in the meat-eaters too and just see meat the same as any other food God gives you. Baba Ji said as well that we have the right to kill for food, in the same way that our body is being eaten by bacteria, viruses, head lice, parasites and when we die, the worms and maggots that digest us.)
There is no restriction as far as diet is concerned. One should not be desiring for eating meat however if it comes on dining table it is just a type of food and should be respected as food. Killing is bad but if you did not kill the animal, you are not affected. Moderation is the key, a well-balanced diet is important for good health. However, eating meat can bring some animal instincts within us such as lustful behaviour and that is why some bhagats (lovers of God) avoided meat. So it is your personal choice whether you want to eat meat or not, the main purpose of this human life is to realise God and the only way to do so is by complete surrender with body, mind and wealth to God and Guru.
Meat is a Tamsik Bhojan – it promotes Tamo Birti – which is Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Loh and Ahankaar, other than that there is no othere disadvantage of eating meat. Milk, butter and ghee is also Tamsik Bhojan, so what you should eat and what not is a very controversial subject. Tamo Birti can all together be killed with Naam. Half of the Brahamand (world) is eating other half of the Brahamand. So much so plants also have life and tearing them apart is also equally hurting anything with life. Moreover, there are millions of bacteria and living organisms that you kill everyday through your body, so how will you explain that, which is all built in to your system and can’t be avoided at all. So as we said it is a very highly controversial subject, the ones who eat meat can do bandgi as well as the ones who don’t. If you eat that is OK and if you don’t eat that is OK as well, the best thing is not to indulge yourself in this controversey and do what you like in this respect. The main thing is that killing animals is not good, hurting animals is not good, but once it is dead then eating it will not make you a sinner in anyway. So do what you think is good for you, but don’t make it an issue and debate on it.
Dassan Dass, 2008
There are millions of people who follow the Radha Soami Satsang all over the world, but these poor people don’t know that just by going to Satsangat they don’t earn much, and they can only earn their spirituality by doing what their Satguru is telling them to do. One thing more we would like to comment over here is about their eating behavior – they won’t let anybody use utensils used for cooking meat, their belief is that by cooking meat in a utensil the utensil is impurified and will effect their spiritual life, but these poor people don’t know their real “pot” – their Hirda is so dirty with so many holes in it and is lying inverted so how can any Amrit will stay in this pot. This is the kind of dangerous illusions all these people are living in and pretending over and over again that they are Guru Wale and they have Naam, but they are totally empty from inside. So focusing on your Karni and making it Sat Ki Karni is the key to spiritual success. Therefore, when the people blessed with the Gurparsaad don’t follow their Satguru’s words they loose the Naam and the Gurparsaad. PLEASE MAKE A NOTE OF THIS DIVINE TRUTH. If this was not true then all the people who met ten Satguru Sahibans would have achieved Jivan Mukti, if this was not true then anybody who meets a Braham Gyani would become Jivan Mukt.
Dassan Dass, 2010
SARDAR JI: Yes. But you agree that we need to abide by GurMat – the Guru’s Wisdom. So Guru Gobind Singh Ji said we have to be AmritDhari (taken Sikh initiation). And these children were following that GurMat, but now got the idea from you that they don’t need to follow that and have cut their hair and eat meat. Now you agree whatever Gurbani says we have to abide by, so Gurbani says, “sabat soorat dastar siraa.” (1) So if you don’t believe in that you don’t believe in your Guru. And the second point is that Gurbani says that the food you put into this body should be pure. But, what you eat is not right. Gurbani says, “kabeer bhaa(n)g maashhulee suraa paan jo jo praanee khaa(n)hi ||” – meaning don’t take drugs , eat fish or drink intoxicating drinks. (2)
DD: That is Sant Kabir ji’s Bani, also read what Guru Nanak Dev Ji said that only fools argue about meat.
Point 1 – Many sikhs misquote Gurbani as above, ““sabat soorat dastar siraa” which they interpret to mean “the complete form is with a turban on your head.” They misquote this to justify why they wear a turban and keep a long beard. The full shabad is quite long and is Guru Arjun Dev ji educating a Muslim on how to be a true Muslim by putting emphasis on internal qualities like mercy and kindness, instead of thinking their external rituals and dress are going to please God. This particular line is not telling us that the complete form (sabat soorat) is a turban on our head (dastar siraa). For a start the phrase “sabat soorat” means total awareness.
From the ‘Dictionary of Guru Granth Sahib’, Surinder Singh Kohli
Sábat (from Arabic Sábit) – the whole, complete, faultless.
Soorat – mindfulness, awareness, mystical awareness of God, attention.
So Guru Arjun Dev ji is educating Muslims that their ideal of simply having a turban on the head is NOT the way of getting honoured by God, but by having total awareness of God at all times is the way. We read that in those days a repectable Muslim would wear a turban and have an unshaven beard. But, if they were a criminal they would be taken to court with their turban around their neck as a sign of dishonour and beard cut. Hence, even for Muslims in those days it seems that the turban and beard were a sign of honour. But, Gurbani is saying don’t get proud of having a turban and beard, that’s not going to get you to God – that’s not going to give you honour in God’s court, it’s where your mind is at that counts. So make your mind always live in the total awareness of God at all times.
káiá kirdár aurat yakíná
Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride.
rang tamásé mán hakíná
Play and enjoy the Lord’s love and delight.
nápák pák kar hadúr hadísá sábat súrat dastár sirá (12)
Purify what is impure, and let the Lord’s Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||
Point 2 – Again this gets used by Sikhs to justify not eating meat. It is written by Sant Kabir ji and if you read the second line as well, he is actually pointing out to those people who are doing all kinds of rituals like pilgrimages and taking fasts and taking drugs, drink and fish concoctions that they will end up far from God. So get out of the illusion external things are going to get you to God.
kabeer bhaa(n)g maashhulee suraa paan jo jo praanee khaa(n)hi ||
theerathh barath naem keeeae thae sabhai rasaathal jaa(n)hi ||233||
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine.
Pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow too, they will all go to hell. ||233||
SARDAR JI: So you need to have discipline in dress and diet according to Gurbani.
DD: Respected Sardar Sahib, the discipline required is internal not external. Spriritual achievement is achieved by observing inner Rehat (compliance) nothing is achieved by following outer Rehats.
SARDAR JI: If a farmer just plants seeds without ploughing the field will he get any result?
DD: The field he ploughs has to be of the mind, not the body. If the five thieves don’t come under your shoes – under your control, and your desires are not put out, then no matter what external compliance (REHAT) you observe, nothing, absolutely NO spiritual progress will be made.
SARDAR JI: If you don’t put good food , i.e. vegetarian food into your body, you cannot be a pure vessel.
DD: Respected Sardar Ji, half the world is eating the other half, including the vegetation you yourself are eating. That has life in it as well. The only way you will purify yourself is to bring the five thieves under your shoes. You can eat as much so called pure food as you want, you will achieve no spiritual progress. No one ever has and no one ever will.
SARDAR JI: But in Gurbani it says that a white sheet once soiled with blood is stained, so your body is stained when you eat meat.
DD: The astral body gets stained by bad deeds. The physical body does not get stained by eating meat. Gurbani talks about your Hirdha (heart centre, your inside). Your soul, astral body, seven chakras, and spiritual doorways are part of your spirital form, not your physical form.
SARDAR JI: So the person who has no mercy, would you call him a religious person?
DD: Not at all, mercy (Daya) is the son of Dharam (path to union) – “daya dharam ka poot.” – Jap Ji..
SARDAR JI: So the one who kills an animal, is he showing any mercy?
DD: No, the killer is not showing any mercy. But, the one who eats the meat that is presented to him as food, is honouring the dead animal by making use of its flesh instead of wasting food.
SARDAR JI: (laughs!) But, the killer only killed it for the one who ate it. If there was no demand for the meat, the killing wouldn’t have taken place.
DD: The butcher killed it because he had karma with that animal (Baba ji also said that we have the right to kill for food – its not a bad deed). All of these discussions about meat and turban are all shallow. The only thing of any importance is the inner compliance (andherli rehat). Look here, this divine soul sitting next to you, Om Ji, is not wearing any of the 5Ks, nor does he wear a turban and he is clean shaven. He is from a Hindu family. But, since getting the GurParsaad five years ago and earning the Gurbani and surrendering completely to the Guru who gave him Naam, he has become Sant Hirdha (enlightened soul). So how do you explain the fact that Guru Gobind Singh ji has appeared to him in his Samadhi and given him blessings?
SARDAR JI: That is nonsense. Guru Gobind Singh ji said that he would not give his sacred vision (Darshan) to anyone who does not wear the 5Ks, the form of the Khalsa (Khalsa roop).
DD: Om ji is a true Khalsa, he is pure within and that is what Guru Gobind Singh ji meant when he said Khalsa. Guru Gobind singh ji said himself, “Atam Ras so jaaniyaa soee khalas dev.” (Only the one who is in soul-bliss is the Khalsa.)
SARDAR JI: You talk about Guru Gobind Singh ji, but walk in the opposite direction.
DD: Sardar Sahib ji, the Rehat of Guru Gobind Singh ji is the internal discipline that is the only way to become pure within, to enjoy Atam Ras – Soul-Bliss. Not through external disciplines. One needs to beat their five thieves and desires within. If you don’t defeat Maya then you don’t clean your inner vessel no matter what you eat or what your wear.
SARDAR JI: But, we need to have external disciplines to control ourself.
DD: If you think you are in control then that is ego talking. Everything is running under Akal Purakh’s control – His hukam. Man can’t control anything.
SARDAR JI: Of course we can control ourself.
DD: It’s written in Gurbani that everything is under God’s control, “hukmai andhar sabh ko bahur hukam na koi.” – Everything is under the Hukam, there is nothing outside the Hukam. – Jap Ji. It is only ego to say I can control something.
SARDAR JI: (To Om Ji) Ok then can you show me Guru Gobind Singh ji?
DD: How can anyone show you Guru Gobind Singh ji? You have to clean up your inner vessel like the Guru Ji said then He can show Himself to you.
SARDAR JI: Look I am not a fake, I believe in Guru Gobind Singh ji and I am doing what he said.
Discussion, After Sardar Ji Left, With His Son J:
DD: (Look at the sikh hardocre religious vegetarian’s illusion (including Sardar Ji above) The ones that are living, their own family, they have no mercy or compassion towards them if they eat meat. Those (religious vegetarians) people swear and curse those living people who eat meat. They think by cursing the living they are somehow being merciful (showing Daya) to the dead animal. But, look at the facts. We haven’t killed the animal, so why curse at us for eating it? The one who killed the animal is the ones who has karma with that animal? No point taking out his frustration on the one who is eating it. Truth is that he has to accept this is the Truth and get out of religious vegetarian logic.
NJ: Baba ji said he won’t accept the truth until he is very old.
DD: He thinks we told you to take your turbans off and eat meat.
J: Yeh, that’s what he thinks.
DD: We told him we didn’t even know when H took his turban off. We didn’t know either when you took off your turbans.
J: Yeh, that’s what his problem is. The reason he came here to confront you was because he was angry that you took us away from the path he is following.
DD: We told him that too, (that was the real reason he had come to see us, not to discuss or to get blessings, but to show his disapproval.)
JP: Yes and he did admit that.
DD: Yes. That’s the real reason why he came, but it is all of duty to show him kindness. We should all pray for him.
J: He purposely tries to get us into an argument then says “you have gone into krodh and you swear – is that what your guru teaches you?” In reality, he himself is like that – angry and swears.
DD: Only a Puran Brahmgyani is above it all (5 thieves and Maya) and remains in One Khand (Sach Khand = realm of Truth).
WHAT OTHER DEVOTEES HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT MEAT
By Preeto 2003
We have personally gone from being meat-eater as a kid. To vegetarian when requested by the Sikh Panth at initiation ceremony. To going back to eating meat when we read in history that Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Khalsa went hunting and ate meat. But feeling guilty about being indirectly responsible for an animal’s slaughter we went back to being vegetarian for another 15 years, but still confused about it. Then eating meat again last year but getting caught up in the desire and taste for it, and watching hunting done by relatives in Indian Mountains. Now finally Baba Ji and sant sangat has explained to us the Truth and this article has tried to explain what we have learnt. That is why Bhai Gurdas Ji says “Without a Satguru NO mystery of God can be understood”.
Dukhna dehee kisay jee patth sio ghar jaavao (322)
Do not cause any being to suffer, and you shall go to your true home with honor.
Intentionally killing any living being is wrong. That action is the exact opposite of Truth (SAT KARAM) – it is an ASAT KARAM. Guru Nanak says that Religion is the son of Compassion (Dharam Daya Ka Pooth). When you are kind to all living beings you fill with compassion and that brings you closer to the Father of all religions – God. When you intentionally kill you fill with unkindness and go further from God. When you kill in the name of religion that is the total opposite of what religion was made for – where has your compassion gone? Where there is goodness there is God, where there is evil that is you.
Be kind to people, animals and even plants. Be kind to the whole of Creation. That will develop compassion within you and in your naam simran you will experience loving devotion.
However, everyday we are involved in killing so many insects, bugs and bacteria without even realising. There is no need to feel guilty about that as it has not made you less compassionate. Accept that life and death is also part of God’s Hukam and those insects, bugs and bacteria completed their life cycle as ordained by God.
Extreme compassion gets trampled on by this world. Guru Arjun Dev Ji and Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji were extremely compassionate and even accepted torture and martydom in order to avert war and killing. But when all peaceful means had been exhausted the following Gurus – Guru HarGobind Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji, received the Hukam that the only way to be compassionate now was to destroy the evil ones with the sword. When their armies killed it was for justice and not for aquisitions or personal revenge. They were following the Hukam, so killing at wartime of extreme evil is not considered an untrue action (asat karam).
In terms of food, many people have the incorrect belief that because an animal was killed they cannot eat its meat. Killing and eating meat are two separate issues. Killing an animal unnecessarily is wrong. But eating meat is not. The one who killed the animal unneccessarily is creating negative actions for himself – eg he kills the animal in this life out of unkindness and in some later life he will be the animal that is killed. However, once the animal is dead due to its destiny of dying in that way, and its meat is prepared as food, there is no bad action in eating it. It is just food that God has presented to you to eat. Infact going hungry rather than eating meat is actually denying God’s hukam for you.
What is unnecessary killing of an animal? You have to use your own intuition – listen to God inside you – and see how it effects your naam simran. Eg If you have plenty of vegetarian food available then there is no need to kill an animal. If there is no other food available then it’s ok to kill the animal for food. When Guru HarGobind ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji where training their armies it was necessary to go hunting. When there was not any war conditions then as far as I know the first 5 Guru’s did not kill animals. If you are attacked by an animal then you have to defend yourself just like Guru HarGobind ji killed the tiger. If you are a farmer ploughing the fields then it is acceptable that many insects and worms are going to get killed. Or if a fox is attacking the farmers chickens then you can kill it. But to chase a fox or to go hunting as a blood sport – just for the thrill of the kill is unnecessary.
The trouble you get with your meditation after eating meat is not from the meat, but from the guilt that it has created in your mind. Many religious people have been taught that eating meat or certain meats (cow, pig) is unpure. If they eat it it makes them feel guilty. If they see someone else eat it it makes them feel angry. And regardless of meat or vegetarian food, the tongue starts liking tastes of favourite foods leading to cravings. Guilt, anger and cravings are the actual problems for meditation, not the meat.
When you see vegetarian food as pure and meat as impure that is considered to be the illusion that many religious people are suffering from. Actually God is in both foods – need to see God in everything with Ek Drisht – One vision.
SGGS teaches us that killing is wrong so be compassionate. And that only fools argue about meat because it is just food – same as vegetarian dishes are just food. The only foods and drinks to avoid are the ones that cause your body or mind problems – hence effecting your naam simran. Guru Nanak’s philosophy is as simple as that.
If you have to kill ask yourself
1) is there any alternative to killing?
2) Am I killing for the thrill or for the taste?
3) Will I lose my compassion in the act of killing (and encourage my evil side)?
If you answer yes to any of them then Killing will be an untrue actions – asat karam for you.
If you are presented with meat ask yourself
1) am I denying it because my religion/beliefs teach me it is wrong?
2) am I feeling guilty because I think it is impure?
3) Am I angry that an animal was killed?
If you answer yes to any of them then you are caught up in the illusion and need to see meat same as vegetarian food.
REPLY from Dassan Dass Ji
Ik Oankaar Satnaam Satgur Parsaad
Dhan Dhan Paar Braham Parmesar
Dhan Dhan Satgur Sachey Patshah
Dhan Dhan Gur Sangat
Dandaut Parvaan Karna Ji.
Here are some more words to help you understand this subject:
The only disadvantage of eating meat is that it brings in us the Tamo Birti; it promotes lust in us, and for that matter probably milk, butter and some of these dairy products are also counted as increasing Tamo Birti in us. The Tamo Guns are: Kaam Krodh Lobh Moh and Ahankaar, and excessive usage of any of these kinds of foods will promote these five vices in us. That is the only reason that we should be concerned about eating meat, but a limited usage should not hurt, like in most of our Indian families the meat might be cooked like once a week or so. Eating too much meat is otherwise also not healthy, it promotes health issues and diseases in our body. The key is that we should not be craving for anything, but if it comes on the table then refusing is not good, however, if you have a choice on the table then do whatever you feel like at that moment. You can also restrain from eating meat if you don’t like it but not for any of the religious reasons. Not eating meat from a religious perspective is a n illusion.
The second point we would like to stress here is that as was put by Baba Ji once that half of the living beings are eating the other half of the living beings, and this is the law of nature and can’t be amended by anybody. Imagine if in the USA or in UK a large number of people stop eating meat (beef and chicken) then what will happen. So playing with the laws of the nature (which are under the control of Almighty) will not be the right thing to question and change.
Pritam Anand ji mentioned that when L ji had arrived from Vietnam, she, like all good housewives, wanted a clean house, so was busy splatting flies with the fly swatter. When Pritam Anand saw what she was doing, he stopped her right away saying with a loving smile, “No L ji, how would you like to be zapped? Zap! Zap! Zap! Just open a window and release it, and just keep food covered if that’s what you are worried about. Don’t kill unneccesarily, always think about your deeds.”
But, then we may wonder why do the sangat eat meat after showing so much compassion to creatures? Pritam Anand answered by saying, “remember that when a Sant kills or eats meat, he is also liberating those souls. Again blessing them and valuing their life, rather than for selfish desire and unnecessary killing without any thought for the soul within.”
Recently, we were cleaning the garage and their were many cobwebs and spiders we had to clear. We also do not like to kill unneccesarily, so just asked Baba ji to bless them as we cleared them all out and killed them with our broom. Same with when we eat food, first ask Baba ji in our heart to bless all the souls involved. However, in the case of the spiders, the next day, we mentioned to Dassan Dass ji we were feeling guilty about killing all of those spiders. Dassan Dass ji paused for a second as he blessed their souls and said to us, “Don’t worry, all those souls are coming back as humans in the next life.” So what a blessing. The following day, we saw two spiders had managed to avoid our deadly broom. And we laughed saying to those spiders, “– you shouldn’t have hid in the corners as you missed your chance to come back as a human!”