Kaur: Preeto, you really are one confused soul. You messed up people believe that Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is just a ‘book’…your cult has even had the audacity to treat it just like that without any respect. And what do you think about DasamBani (teaching of the Tenth Guru)? Your cult follows that disgusting xxxx (false accusation removed) who calls himself Baba Ji?!?! You guys kiss his cruddy feet and try and act all humble kissing ‘the dust of your feet’ ?!?! Lol. Stop being brainwashed. Stop the disgrace of your own family by spouting undercover tactics to recruit people into your disgusting, messed up cult. Jog on SHEEP.
Preeto: Kaur Ji, we know Singh Ji from along time, everything he has said we have replied to and he has replied to as well in a civilised way and we have stuck to Gurbani only, Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth sahib ji. We are also learning from Singh ji, we are just sharing what we have , as he is sharing what he has. This is how we learn and grow. We dont know why you have changed the topic and made it into personal insults. Does Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib ji, to whom we do dandauth bandhna everytime and sing Gurbani from and love with all our heart, justify anything you have said? Dhan Baba Nanak ji Himself says “Hum nahee chunga buraa nahee koee” – I am not good no one is bad. Meaning he has not judged anyone, then as His Sikh why do you? God bless you.
Preeto: Singh ji, thankyou for sharing your wisdom with us, we are always learning from you. Please forgive us our mistakes. We will stop posting now as we did not wish to offend anyone. God Bless All.
Kaur: oh and when they caught, they do a runner by ‘we will stop posting now as we did not wish to offend anyone’
Preeto: Kaur Ji, we only offered to stop posting as we thought you were getting offended, and when people get offended they often say and do things they regret (Gurbani says that slandering is not good for your soul). If you want to carry on this discussion then it will be nice if you do not go into personal insults, unfounded accusations, name calling and so on.
Please do teach me about DasamBani and the quotes from Guru Sahib from there. Everything we have written is based on Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji – please go through our previous postings and tell us if we have said anything that is NOT in line with the TRUTH in gurbani.
When a person does not like the message, then it is easy to try and discredit the messenger, which is what you are trying to do.
Please carry on if that is how you wish to carry on, we will only call you penji (sister)- if you think its fake humbleness , that is fine, still we will call you penji and kiss your feet.
Baba Farid Ji says in Gurbani to kiss the feet of the one who slaps you. If you read our posts we are not against you or the Singhs or the Sikhs or the PANTH. all we are saying is a very simple thing, that follow gurbani 100%, GURU MANYO GRANTH means follow GURBANI 100%. Which means really try to understand what Gurbani is saying, rather than trying to make it fit in with what you are believing. That is showing the true RESPECT for Guru Granth Sahib Ji, not just bowing and doing ritual readings and daily ceremonies around it. Do those ceremonies by all means to increase your devotion, but its still meaningless if you don’t actually read and put into practise what your Guru is saying.
But what you do instead is ignore Gurbani and instead believe that you cant attain God without externals of merely looking like a Sikh, which is the complete opposite of what Gurbani says.
Once you understand that GURBANI is what makes a heart into a SANT, then if it is your destiny to do so, because a true KHALSA warrior – SIPAHEE, with the correct understanding of why the externals are there, why the identity is there.
EXTERNALS are there for the EXTERNAL situation that Sikhs were in, but, the outside situation has changed 300 yrs later and so has the preaching. The preaching now has to justify why we still need externals, so it all gets linked back to you need it for spiritual reasons. For example, we went to Sikh camps where we were told wrong things like :
– “the five Ks protect you from the 5 thieves,” and then and educated Sikh gave us an hour lecture on how each K defended you against each one of the five thieves. But, the practical reality is that when lust overtakes you, it doesn’t matter how tight you tie the knot in your Kacherra (shorts) you are wearing, nothing stops you relieving yourself! Or when ANGER comes in, as it has in your reply above, then none of your 5Ks stopped you from speaking with hatred, did they? Or when your religious pride got offended, none of the 5Ks reminded you to stay humble and just do Naam Simran, did they?
– “eating meat is disgusting and the blood stains your soul,” when Gurbani actually says it is your bad deeds that stain your astral body and is known as karmic filth – “janam janam kee mayl”. What you eat only affects your physical body, not your spiritual body. That is why in Gurbani , Dhan Baba Nanak ji says very simply only fools argue about meat and to eat what suits your body. We guess you are proabably a strict vegetarian as most religious Sikhs like yourself nowadays are. But has your diet made your words any more compassionate? Guru Arjun Dev ji says that real “meat” to avoid is the five thieves. We guess you would be horrified if you ate meat, but you don’t seem to be bothered that you let your ANGER thief consume you.
You call us brainwashed, but don’t see that all the beliefs you have you were not born with, but have been LEARNED by you from other religious minded people that you respect, and they do not even match up with the Truth in Gurbani that you call as your Guru but don’t listen to.
Please understand that strict vegetarianism only came into Sikh teachings after the British Raj interfered in Sikhism in order to weaken it and that is when they allowed Hindu holy men to run Harmandir Sahib (Golden Temple), so they taught the Sikh preachers the Hindu texts and vegetarian beliefs came in too. It was also around that time that Sikh holy men started using the title Sant and staying single and surrounded by young single men in order to do their preaching. This again was copied from the ways of the Hindu holy men. Along with the traditions of ritual reading of holy texts and getting paid to perform these ritual readings – which you see in the Gurdwaras nowadays as weekly Akhand Paats which have a price against them, or in many other Gurdwaras that we have seen in India, Hazoor Sahib, over 30 simultaneous Akhand Paats (earning a lot more money) for the Gurdwara.
Also from these Hindu holy men came in the practise of giving verses (Shabads) from Guru Granth Sahib (whereas before they gave it from the Hindu texts) to people to read and repeat a certain amount of times for a certain amount of days in order to fulfil their wants. Eg even now in India, our sister went to a Gurdwara with a strict vegetarian with “Sant” as their title. She wasn’t married at the time, he took a Shabad from Gurbani on a piece of paper, rolled it up and gave it to her to wear in a necklace. She had to recite it 21 times a day for 40 days and then her marriage blockage would be removed. She tried it, but nothing progressed in terms of marriage for many year even after that, but the “Sant” got his money and is still running his Gurdwara “business” (the main product for sale is the offer of boys to couple who want them in the name of the great Brahmgiani Baba Budda Ji – no Brahmgiani would be happy for un-truth’s to be done in their name). He tells them what to recite, what herbs to take, and if they have a boy, the family spends money on a band and they celebrate. If they have a girl, as my wife did after following his instructions, they are told, “well you must have not followed the instructions.”) This is exactly what Bhai Gurdas Ji said that Baba Nanak ji saved people from – from the clutches of the fourth Ved – Hindu holy book. Which if you read it, reads like a spell book – “recite this verse and this will happen,” etc. etc.
Once these types of so called Sants with Hindu beliefs entered into Sikhism, the rituals, ceremonies and paid services all came with them but based around using the holy texts of the Sikhs as the object of worship and pretty much ignoring the teachings within. Even recently our friend was teaching Kirtan at a Sikh School run by a Sant organisation in the UK, he said to them, why don’t you teach the children in Raag (classical), as that is what the Guru’s wrote the Gurbani in. He was told, that it was more important to them to worship the object of Guru Granth Sahib as if it were Guru Nanak Dev Ji sitting there, rather than actually what was written inside. And all of their preaching is done by singing in simple tunes, simple Punjabi about songs of the Guru’s and Sikhs and their founding Sant and the miracle he performed. As well as ritualistic readings of Guru Granth sahib ji, intermixed with shabads and more and more rituals and ceremonies. Their preachers are called “Sant”, they wear white, women are not allowed to preach or read from the Guru Granth Sahib at their Gurdwaras and they are surrounded by young, single men who do not get married. Yet, most of their most devout followers are women. A friend of our’s dad got inspired by this organisation and went and lived with them for a month, after that he was so sickened by their in-fighting and hypocrisy, he completely lost his faith and could not tolerate our friend even going to a Sant.
– “Sants are all fakes and misleading the masses by behaving as living Gurus.” We were told at the Sikh Camps that all Sants are just fakes and misleading people. That even Gurbani calls them “Benares Kay Tug” – the thieves at Benares (holy place that Kabir Ji visited and commented upon the people there.) Yes, it is easy to believe this nowadays especially as we ourself have seen the example of the so-called “Sants” as described above. However, to then go and say that ALL SANTS ARE FAKE and that the ONLY SANT IS GURU GRANTH SAHIB is completely the wrong teaching, exact opposite of what Gurbani is saying. Gurbani is in praise of Truth and the ones who have realised Truth in their heart – Pargatyo Jyot. All of the Gurus and Bhagats in gurbani are basically telling us their life stories. That they were lost, lonely, outcaste and desperately seeking God but unable to find Him through the religious practises they saw around them. But, when their prayer was heard, they found the sangat of the holy, whom they served and were then blessed with Naam. Then with earning the Naam they learned to stay in utmost humility with total surrender of mind, body and wealth at their Guru’s feet. Until one day the object of their hearts desire – the Truth, God came and manifested. So their verses are telling us to do the same, to break away from false, dead-end religious practises, to pray sincerely from our heart, to do good deeds and refrain from bad deeds, to forgive others and accept what happened as part of our karma, and above all to seek the holy, to serve them selflessly and to receive their Eternal blessings of Naam. That true Sant is actually SAT – TRUTH , God Himself when He manifests inside the Hirdha of a divine soul. That is the SAT GURU. Means SAT is the GURU inside them. This didn’t change when Guru Gobind singh ji left, he declared that “Khalsa mera sat guru poora” – Khalsa is my SAT GURU. Meaning that the Khalsa, the one within whom the divine light of God has manifested, the SAT, is the GURU. And they bless others.
– “The only Guru now for the Sikhs is the Guru Granth Sahib – the Shabad Guru.” It is true that what divine words came from SAT in the Hirdha of the GURUS and BHAGATS is known as the SHABAD GURU. And that is Eternally Blessed and we meditate upon the source of all SHABADS which is the SHABAD – SAT NAAM. So Shabad is the Guru and your consciousness is the disciple to the sound of it inside. Baba Nanak Ji wrote it as: “shabad guru surat dhun chela.” So always there has been the Truth-Seeker, the Truth-Guru and the Shabad Guru which is given to the Truth-Seeker and blessed by the Truth-Guru. Guru Granth Sahib ji is the physical ink and paper that the divine teachings are written upon and preserved through the sacrifices of Sikhs throughout the last few centuries. However, it is NOT alive, it is not LIVING. This is also what was taught at the camps and in Gurdwaras around the world, that Guru Granth Sahib ji is the LIGHT of the Ten gurus “das patshahian da jyot siri guru granth sahib ji” – this line is added by Sikh committees to the ardas of Guru Gobind singh ji that proceeds it. It is a man-made statement. The LIGHT OF THE TEN GURUS is the same as the LIGHT OF GOD, which is the same as the DIVINE LIGHT that manifests inside a divine soul – PARGATYO JYOT. Which is what Guru Gobind Singh ji called as Khalsa. And gurbani calls as SANT, BRAHMGIANI, HAR JAN and so on. Gurbani is the light for the world, “gurbani iss jag meh chanan ha” because when you sit and understand it,it makes you broad minded and takes each person out fo the darkness of ignorance. But more importantly, once you are Eternally blessed with Naam, GurParsaadi Naam, and you sit and do your simran whilst listening to Gurbani, your consciousness merges with the Shabad, you feel exactly the love and light and extreme humbleness that the Gurus and Bhagats felt when they were delivering those divine words from their own heart. Gurbani comes alive in your heart when it combines with our soul. This state is called “shabd surat da mel – union of the word and your consciousness.” Please get rid of the false belief that Guru Granth Sahib ji is living. Ask yourself when in the printing process did it go from an inanimate ink and paper to becoming living and installed with JYOT – light of God, life force? Whislt people still believe it is living, they treat it like a human with human needs eg, lie it down on a bed, in winter put extra blankets on, in summer turn on a fan, on Rakhri day women tie Rakhri’s on the Palki. This is all based on incorrect understanding which is preached by the youth preachers, Gurdwara gianis and so-called “Sants”.
Most of the religious practises you can see around you today are man-made by Panthic committees who were trying to forumulate a religion after they saw the success of Christainity and the attack of Hinduism upon Sikh beliefs. Please spend some time and read up on Sikh History and discover the Truth for yourself as to where your beliefs have come from – not Gurbani, that is for sure. There are so many more examples which you can read about on the Truth versus Tradition section of the website.
Everything you say, please justify with Gurbani, every accusation you make please provide evidence to backup what you say, otherwise you are only trying to discredit the messenger to avoid listening to the message.
God bless you sister, keep our head at your feet in service of the Truth, may Satguru ji bless you so you can understand and accept it. Without His Grace no one understands Sat Naam.